backpack

[bill]

I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed
Thanks

Bill

[Ian Meanie]

Post by bill
I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed
Thanks
Bill

Yes, you are restricted I think, at least, I was too when I did it
last (some time ago).


Ian

[Paul Harris]

In message

Post by Ian Meanie

Post by bill
I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed
Thanks
Bill

Yes, you are restricted I think, at least, I was too when I did it
last (some time ago).

That facility was SID which was supplied and managed by the volunteers
running ScoutBase. I remember it well as I was the Global Administrator
for it for a fair number of years. We had local admins appointed by the
CC or AC in each County/Area who kept an eye on things locally with
varying degrees of success..

SID was taken down at the request of H.Q. as it was replaced by the
Membership Service System known as My Backpack except that as you have
discovered it still doesn't provide the same functionality and I am not
sure that it even will allow you to search.

[bill]

Post by Paul Harris
In message

Post by Ian Meanie

Post by bill
I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed
Thanks
Bill

Yes, you are restricted I think, at least, I was too when I did it
last (some time ago).

That facility was SID which was supplied and managed by the volunteers
running ScoutBase.  I remember it well as I was the Global Administrator
for it for a fair number of years.  We had local admins appointed by the
CC or AC in each County/Area who kept an eye on things locally with
varying degrees of success..
SID was taken down at the request of H.Q. as it was replaced by the
Membership Service System known as My Backpack except that as you have
discovered it still doesn't provide the same functionality and I am not
sure that it even will allow you to search.
--
Paul Harris

bloody waste of time really, then?
I do know my own group- I have this thing called a record system!

Still I'm sure it can't really be a genuine chocolate teapot. I guess
Very Important personages can use it to survey their empires.

Bill

[Chris Atkinson]

Post by Paul Harris
In message

Post by Ian Meanie

Post by bill
I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed
Thanks
Bill

Yes, you are restricted I think, at least, I was too when I did it
last (some time ago).

That facility was SID which was supplied and managed by the volunteers
running ScoutBase. I remember it well as I was the Global
Administrator for it for a fair number of years. We had local admins
appointed by the CC or AC in each County/Area who kept an eye on things
locally with varying degrees of success..
SID was taken down at the request of H.Q. as it was replaced by the
Membership Service System known as My Backpack except that as you have
discovered it still doesn't provide the same functionality and I am not
sure that it even will allow you to search.

To be fair to HQ (what's the matter with me?) SID was set up in a
'gentler' era on the web. The SBUK Team had this vision of Leaders
contacting one another up and down the country to get local information
on things like campsites, or areas for expeditions and so on. However,
in a fairly short time the web nasties discovered SID as a useful place
for spam. In their innocence the Team put up a notice saying that SID
was for Scouting use only ... ho ho ho!
But SBUK was of course the Association's website, and I suspect HQ got
fed up with complaints from folk who'd been spammed when the obvious
source was SID. There was a solution, but it got overtaken by subsequent
events (aka scouts.org.uk and the later introduction of My Backpack). It
may not have the functionality of that early vision, but, hey, Hutber's
Law rules - okay?
Chris A.

[Paul Harris]

Post by Chris Atkinson
To be fair to HQ (what's the matter with me?) SID was set up in a
'gentler' era on the web. The SBUK Team had this vision of Leaders
contacting one another up and down the country to get local information
on things like campsites, or areas for expeditions and so on.

Many did.

Post by Chris Atkinson
However, in a fairly short time the web nasties discovered SID as a
useful place for spam. In their innocence the Team put up a notice
saying that SID was for Scouting use only ... ho ho ho!

It was never going to be an effective deterrent.

Post by Chris Atkinson
But SBUK was of course the Association's website, and I suspect HQ got
fed up with complaints from folk who'd been spammed when the obvious
source was SID.

Complaints ran at about one or two a month, out of nearly 30k registered
that wasn't a very high proportion but of course the minority were
always very vocal.

Post by Chris Atkinson
There was a solution, but it got overtaken by subsequent events (aka
scouts.org.uk and the later introduction of My Backpack). It may not
have the functionality of that early vision, but, hey, Hutber's Law
rules - okay?

We could easily have done it but MyBackpack was already under
development by H.Q. as the replacement so there seemed little point in
doing something that was about to be replaced. Mind you it took far
longer to get the replacement than we had been told and never did
actually replace all the functionality.

[bill]

Post by Paul Harris

Post by Chris Atkinson
To be fair to HQ (what's the matter with me?) SID was set up in a
'gentler' era on the web. The SBUK Team had this vision of Leaders
contacting one another up and down the country to get local information
on things like campsites, or areas for expeditions and so on.

Many did.

Post by Chris Atkinson
However, in a fairly short time the web nasties discovered SID as a
useful place for spam. In their innocence the Team put up a notice
saying that SID was for Scouting use only ... ho ho ho!

It was never going to be an effective deterrent.

Post by Chris Atkinson
But SBUK was of course the Association's website, and I suspect HQ got
fed up with complaints from folk who'd been spammed when the obvious
source was SID.

Complaints ran at about one or two a month, out of nearly 30k registered
that wasn't a very high proportion but of course the minority were
always very vocal.

Post by Chris Atkinson
There was a solution, but it got overtaken by subsequent events (aka
scouts.org.uk and the later introduction of My Backpack). It may not
have the functionality of that early vision, but, hey, Hutber's Law
rules - okay?

We could easily have done it but MyBackpack was already under
development by H.Q. as the replacement so there seemed little point in
doing something that was about to be replaced.  Mind you it took far
longer to get the replacement than we had been told and never did
actually replace all the functionality.
--
Paul Harris

I think it's a ricket.If the advanced search claims to allow you to
access different places, inactive members etc, I think it OUGHT to
work. Either somene's said "no, no , no" after it was "commissioned"
or there's a technical cock-up.

[Al]

Post by Paul Harris

Post by Chris Atkinson
To be fair to HQ (what's the matter with me?) SID was set up in a
'gentler' era on the web. The SBUK Team had this vision of Leaders
contacting one another up and down the country to get local information
on things like campsites, or areas for expeditions and so on.

Many did.

Post by Chris Atkinson
However, in a fairly short time the web nasties discovered SID as a
useful place for spam. In their innocence the Team put up a notice
saying that SID was for Scouting use only ... ho ho ho!

It was never going to be an effective deterrent.

Post by Chris Atkinson
But SBUK was of course the Association's website, and I suspect HQ got
fed up with complaints from folk who'd been spammed when the obvious
source was SID.

Complaints ran at about one or two a month, out of nearly 30k registered
that wasn't a very high proportion but of course the minority were
always very vocal.

Post by Chris Atkinson
There was a solution, but it got overtaken by subsequent events (aka
scouts.org.uk and the later introduction of My Backpack). It may not
have the functionality of that early vision, but, hey, Hutber's Law
rules - okay?

We could easily have done it but MyBackpack was already under
development by H.Q. as the replacement so there seemed little point in
doing something that was about to be replaced. Mind you it took far
longer to get the replacement than we had been told and never did
actually replace all the functionality.
--
Paul Harris

I think it's a ricket.If the advanced search claims to allow you to
access different places, inactive members etc, I think it OUGHT to
work. Either somene's said "no, no , no" after it was "commissioned"
or there's a technical cock-up.



Bill,

You can only assess records within the scope of your responsibility.
GSL, all adults in group.
DC, all adults in district
CC, all adults in County
etc etc.

One exception is if you know their membership number, in which case you can
access their info wherever their record sits!

Al

[Paul Harris]

Post by bill

Post by Paul Harris
We could easily have done it but MyBackpack was already under
development by H.Q. as the replacement so there seemed little point in
doing something that was about to be replaced. Mind you it took far
longer to get the replacement than we had been told and never did
actually replace all the functionality.

I think it's a ricket.If the advanced search claims to allow you to
access different places, inactive members etc, I think it OUGHT to
work. Either somene's said "no, no , no" after it was "commissioned"
or there's a technical cock-up.
You can only assess records within the scope of your responsibility.
GSL, all adults in group.
DC, all adults in district
CC, all adults in County
etc etc.
One exception is if you know their membership number, in which case you
can access their info wherever their record sits!

In which case you are not actually limited to being able to search
within the scope of your responsibility.

[rocoho]

Post by Paul Harris

Post by bill

Post by Paul Harris
We could easily have done it but MyBackpack was already under
development by H.Q. as the replacement so there seemed little point in
doing something that was about to be replaced. Mind you it took far
longer to get the replacement than we had been told and never did
actually replace all the functionality.

I think it's a ricket.If the advanced search claims to allow you to
access different places, inactive members etc, I think it OUGHT to
work. Either somene's said "no, no , no" after it was "commissioned"
or there's a technical cock-up.
You can only assess records within the scope of your responsibility.
GSL, all adults in group.
DC, all adults in district
CC, all adults in County
etc etc.
One exception is if you know their membership number, in which case you
can access their info wherever their record sits!

In which case you are not actually limited to being able to search
within the scope of your responsibility.

Ah but! you can see all the details of the person's roles awards
training etc but not the contact details , so its not a great help to
finding somebody , you would need some personal details and be
empowered to appoint by adding an appointment to get that .
try it just pop in ny old number see what you get , not alot of use
though in tracking someone down

[Paul Harris]

In message

Post by rocoho

Post by Paul Harris

Post by Al
One exception is if you know their membership number, in which case you
can access their info wherever their record sits!

In which case you are not actually limited to being able to search
within the scope of your responsibility.

Ah but! you can see all the details of the person's roles awards
training etc but not the contact details , so its not a great help to
finding somebody , you would need some personal details and be
empowered to appoint by adding an appointment to get that .
try it just pop in ny old number see what you get , not alot of use
though in tracking someone down

Which makes no sense. The chances are if you are out of area that you
are looking them up because you want contact details rather than to see
their awards, training etc.

[rocoho]

Post by Paul Harris
In message

Post by Paul Harris

Post by Al
One exception is if you know their membership number, in which case you
can access their info wherever their record sits!

In which case you are not actually limited to being able to search
within the scope of your responsibility.

Ah but!  you can see all the details of the person's roles  awards
training etc  but not the contact details , so its not a great help to
finding somebody , you would need some personal details and be
empowered to appoint by  adding an appointment to get that .
try it just pop in ny old number see what you get ,  not alot of use
though in tracking someone down

Which makes no sense.  The chances are if you are out of area that you
are looking them up because you want contact details rather than to see
their awards, training etc.

Correction of my previous
testing the system ---- Looking at both inactive members and active
elsewhere, for the district on line you cannot see the contact
details , but down load the pdf record(s) and you can. One person I
selected at random resigned in 1998 , should we really still have
their details .

[Dave]

"rocoho" <***@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:95670426-8848-4494-928a-***@v41g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
Correction of my previous
testing the system ---- Looking at both inactive members and active
elsewhere, for the district on line you cannot see the contact
details , but down load the pdf record(s) and you can. One person I
selected at random resigned in 1998 , should we really still have
their details .

Doesn't matter if they resigned. HQ are registered as data controllers and
can keep the records of adults as long as they wish for specified reasons
(which they have registered). They are not generally visible but need to be
on the system incase they return, and only become visible when people want
to circumnavigate the system.

HQ used to have a card system and they were kept for many years so that
records could be checked for historical purposes.

As a group however you should not keep records longer than needed.

[bill]

Post by Dave
As a group however you should not keep records longer than needed.

Of course I agree. However what is "longer than needed"?

Recently to celebrate a birthday of the Group we contacted people who
are in our paper archives as having been members in the 50s.
If the intention of the law is that we should destroy our history,
then sir, the law is a ass.
I'm pleased to see that some of our really old stuff is with Essex
County Library- that includes some membership stuff; my old group has
names of leaders and their addresses going back to the 1920s in that
archive.

Actually, upon reflection, the law is a ass. Well done Mr Bumble for
realising it so many years ago,

[Dave]

Post by bill

Post by Dave
As a group however you should not keep records longer than needed.

Of course I agree. However what is "longer than needed"?

That could be arguable and I guess it depends on what you keep.
As far as I know a simple list of names, addresses, phone no, email
addresses etc would possibly pass the mark as it is really an address book.

If you happen to keep other records showing information like DOB, Religion,
Race, Disabillity etc that is a different situation.

As far as I know the official line is based along the lines of whilst the
person is involved with your Group and as long afterwards as is necessary to
tie any loose ends up.

But as I say an address list I beleive is different.

Post by bill
Recently to celebrate a birthday of the Group we contacted people who
are in our paper archives as having been members in the 50s.
If the intention of the law is that we should destroy our history,
then sir, the law is a ass.

I think that basic things are fine as long as they are not too personal -
that said some info can be got from HQ but only for adults and possibly not
back that far.

Post by bill
I'm pleased to see that some of our really old stuff is with Essex
County Library- that includes some membership stuff; my old group has
names of leaders and their addresses going back to the 1920s in that
archive.
Actually, upon reflection, the law is a ass. Well done Mr Bumble for
realising it so many years ago,

I agree. We have invited people to events here and to do that you need
contact info.

Dave

[Dave]

"Al" <al@[nospam]byteitservices.co.uk> wrote in message news:i4trc2$e7m$***@news.eternal-september.org...
SNIP

Post by Al
One exception is if you know their membership number, in which case you
can access their info wherever their record sits!
Al

Not quite true.

If you know their member number you can access the parts of their record
that will tell you their appointments, awards, training, etc.

What you cannot see is their personal details, so if you were hoping to ring
them or email them you will not have that info.

I have tried it with my sister who is in another District.

Now I think I know a sneaky way to get that info but I don't want to say on
here as I find it useful sometimes to get an address or email etc.

Dave

[SBR]

Post by bill
I think it's a ricket.If the advanced search claims to allow you to
access different places, inactive members etc, I think it OUGHT to
work. Either somene's said "no, no , no" after it was "commissioned"
or there's a technical cock-up.

(1) Health and saftey.

(2) Data Protection mate, sorry can't help you.

Pick either of the above

[Peter Sheppard]

Post by bill
I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed

You can only search for individuals within your own remit, and only if you
have a Full role for that remit. It would be a DPA nightmare otherwise.

However, have you looked at the Organisation Detials tab? You can search
for groups/districts etc there, and see whatever contact details have been
put in there by that group. I don't know what roles can now edit the
details for groups, it was locked down recently, but I know I can see and
edit all group details within my county (I hold a county role). Presumably
at least a GSL can modify the information.

[SBR]

Post by Peter Sheppard
You can only search for individuals within your own remit, and only if you
have a Full role for that remit. It would be a DPA nightmare otherwise.

what about the BT telephone directory, thats go loads of names and numbers
:-)

[Peter Sheppard]

Post by SBR

Post by Peter Sheppard
You can only search for individuals within your own remit, and only if
you have a Full role for that remit. It would be a DPA nightmare
otherwise.

what about the BT telephone directory, thats go loads of names and numbers
:-)

But that is an alpha-indexed data set that the subjects of have given their
consent (albeit buried deep in their service contract somewhere) to appear
in.

[SBR]

Post by Peter Sheppard
But that is an alpha-indexed data set that the subjects of have given
their consent (albeit buried deep in their service contract somewhere) to
appear in.

So how would that be differrent to a list of leaders?

[Mike Parsons]

On Mon, 23 Aug 2010 16:01:15 +0100, "Peter Sheppard"

Post by Peter Sheppard

Post by bill
I wonder if anyone can help? I'd hoped to be able to find a leader in
a distant county using scouts.org.uk, and member search.
I only seem to be able to search my own group.
Is this what should happen?
I know I used to be able to search out people I knew from other areas,
but maybe it's changed

You can only search for individuals within your own remit, and only if you
have a Full role for that remit. It would be a DPA nightmare otherwise.
However, have you looked at the Organisation Detials tab? You can search
for groups/districts etc there, and see whatever contact details have been
put in there by that group. I don't know what roles can now edit the
details for groups, it was locked down recently, but I know I can see and
edit all group details within my county (I hold a county role). Presumably
at least a GSL can modify the information.

Possibly each record could contain tick boxes for

Make my contact details available by searching at

District

County

National

?

The default being NO, NO and NO.

Mike