Discussion:
Troll time
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bill
2011-01-09 12:19:33 UTC
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Once again ! (BSA)
Glue
2011-01-09 17:23:33 UTC
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Post by bill
Once again ! (BSA)
At least there's still life, even if we don't want it.

Glue
Ian Meanie
2011-01-10 16:06:39 UTC
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Post by bill
Once again ! (BSA)
Indeed, though it did prompt me to have an objective look about, where
I found on wikipedia* (so it
must be true) that their membership has dropped by 18% in 10 years.
Whatever the reason, that's
not an insignificant percentage, especially when the number of kids
isn't declining.

So do you go for numbers at any cost, or accept lower numbers as you
think you are right?

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boy_Scouts_of_America_membership_controversies

YiS,

Ian
Ewan Scott
2011-01-11 07:48:38 UTC
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Post by bill
Once again ! (BSA)
Indeed, though it did prompt me to have an objective look about, where
I found on wikipedia* (so it
must be true) that their membership has dropped by 18% in 10 years.
Whatever the reason, that's
not an insignificant percentage, especially when the number of kids
isn't declining.
So do you go for numbers at any cost, or accept lower numbers as you
think you are right?
Having dipped a toe into the murky waters of BSA newsgroups in the past and
having watched the news reports I think that there are a number of issues
that the BSA needs to deal with.

As a an organisation the BSA appears to have a hierarchy that has strong old
fashioned republican values, possibly dominated by the religious right. Here
we debate whether Atheists can join as Leaders, in the BSA they ended up
being taken to court by Wiccans for barring them, and lost.

They have issues about religion, in a way that most of us on this side of
the pond would find incomprehensible. And gays are just a no-go zone.

None of that would really be a hindrance, but for the fact that of the
strength and the vocal nature of those attacking the BSA. The Gay pressure
groups in the USA focus on the BSA and they lobby continuously and use the
courts to remove access to funding. Non-Christian groups add to the
pressure, and the vitriol aimed at the BSA is unbelievable.

If we were under constant attack, instead of just minor ridicule, we would
probably find ourselves in a similar position. However, we don't because,
however staid we may think the SA is, we have a much more liberal approach
in a small country like the UK, than they have in a large federation such as
the USA where state attitudes vary from the laissez faire of San Francisco
to near totalitarian control on some of the mid-west states.

On the ground though, I understand that operations, much like here, vary
greatly from neo-military to uniformed youth clubs. I suspect that the good
ones will survive, just as they do here.

Ewan Scott
AndyW
2011-01-11 08:55:51 UTC
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Post by Ewan Scott
They have issues about religion, in a way that most of us on this side of
the pond would find incomprehensible. And gays are just a no-go zone.
I was at a camp with BSA and we all integrated well until one of our leader
mentioned his boyfriend and the battle lines were drawn.

Attitudes ranged from obviously ignoring to outright verbal hostility (with
some leaders still sociable when the ringleaders were not around). The boys
were told to stay away from the pervert. It was a very uncomfortable
situation and it made me disgusted with the BSA and their leaders.
Probably as a result of the quality of the leaders we had trouble with a
number of the boys who harassed the girls because they had heard that
"European chicks 'put out' and are easy".

Since then I have met some very nice BSA leaders but the first experience is
hard to shift.

Andy

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