Richard Godwin Evening Standard

[bill]

If you read his column yesterday you'll see that he SAYS he was in an
organisation of "cheerful sadists" and that it was hyperviolent.He
says it was scouts.
I REALLY don't recognise either of these terms as representative of
scouting as I've known it.

By saying this sort of rubbish he is likely to put off adult
volunteers, in my view. I wish someone would invite him to see what
scouting is actually like -as opposed to scouting on Planet Godwin....

[GAGS]

Post by bill
If you read his column yesterday

"Mayor Johnson was in Docklands this morning, encouraging Londoners to
volunteer with the Scouts. It's not the first time he's praised
uniformed youth organisations as a way of enfranchising inner-city
kids: “Scout troops and army cadets squads are the kind of gangs we
like. It's time to expand their turf,” he dib-dib-dibbed a couple of
years ago.

In the past I would have been cynical about this — my own Scout troop
was a jamboree of ultraviolence. However, as I learned from my recent
experience mentoring a 10-year-old boy, many disadvantaged children
have scant opportunity even to leave the home outside school hours.

Anything that can broaden horizons is to be encouraged — and there is
no reason why inner-city children will not enjoy traditional scouting
activities such as building fires, canoeing and beating each other up
with sticks. I just hope the new calibre of volunteer is able to exert
a little more discipline than the cheery sadists I remember."

Post by bill
you'll see that he SAYS he was in an
organisation of "cheerful sadists"

He was relating his experiences

Post by bill
and that it was hyperviolent.He
says it was scouts.
I REALLY don't recognise either of these terms as representative of
scouting as I've known it.

But you're not him!

Post by bill
By saying this sort of rubbish he is likely to put off adult
volunteers, in my view. I wish someone would invite him to see what
scouting is actually like -as opposed to scouting on Planet Godwin....

He says his cynicism is in the past. He's just expressing his view
that he hopes the kids of today get a better experience than he did in
his yesterdays.

He's entitled to his views.

Will the article put people off? No, I don't think so.

Does it give a detrimental view? No.

Could it be 'better'? Yes maybe but then it wouldn't be his personal
view, would it?

There are good troops and bad troops today just as there were
yesterday. He was - in his view - unlucky to be in a bad one.

Regards,

GAGS

[bill]

Post by GAGS

Post by bill
If you read his column yesterday

"Mayor Johnson was in Docklands this morning, encouraging Londoners to
volunteer with the Scouts. It's not the first time he's praised
uniformed youth organisations as a way of enfranchising inner-city
kids: “Scout troops and army cadets squads are the kind of gangs we
like. It's time to expand their turf,” he dib-dib-dibbed a couple of
years ago.
In the past I would have been cynical about this — my own Scout troop
was a jamboree of ultraviolence. However, as I learned from my recent
experience mentoring a 10-year-old boy, many disadvantaged children
have scant opportunity even to leave the home outside school hours.
Anything that can broaden horizons is to be encouraged — and there is
no reason why inner-city children will not enjoy traditional scouting
activities such as building fires, canoeing and beating each other up
with sticks. I just hope the new calibre of volunteer is able to exert
a little more discipline than the cheery sadists I remember."

Post by bill
you'll see that he SAYS he was in an
organisation of "cheerful sadists"

He was relating his experiences

Post by bill
and that it was hyperviolent.He
says it was scouts.
I REALLY don't recognise either of these terms as representative of
scouting as I've known it.

But you're not him!

Post by bill
By saying this sort of rubbish he is likely to put off adult
volunteers, in my view. I wish someone would invite him to see what
scouting is actually like -as opposed to scouting on Planet Godwin....

He says his cynicism is in the past. He's just expressing his view
that he hopes the kids of today get a better experience than he did in
his yesterdays.
He's entitled to his views.
Will the article put people off? No, I don't think so.
Does it give a detrimental view? No.
Could it be 'better'? Yes maybe but then it wouldn't be his personal
view, would it?
There are good troops and bad troops today just as there were
yesterday. He was - in his view - unlucky to be in a bad one.
Regards,
GAGS

Thank you for your post GAGS.

You are in a glass half full mood, clearly.
The words
" I just hope the new calibre of volunteer is able to exert
a little more discipline than the cheery sadists I remember"
do not come over to me in the way it does to you. The "I just hope"
suggests he thinks they won't.

And I'm bothered by "sadists" who are usually taken as people who
inflict violence, when counterpointed with "exerting more discipline"
I personally don't want to attract adults who see their role as
exerting discipline. And sadists - probably not. Cheery- definitely
not.

I, of course, must have been a leader at the time he refers to. If you
think that he is not seeking to assoiate all scout troops with his
alleged experiences (I wonder if he ever WAS a member?), then perhaps
you're in a glass full mood!

Bill

[SBR]

Post by bill
If you read his column yesterday
He's entitled to his views.

He is still an arse.

He wanted to build an airport in the Thames Estuary to give london better
Links, well news for you Boris, we are not London you have no Jurastiction.

Why do people like him look at an unspoilt area like the Thankes Marshes and
can only see it as a building site.

Here is an idea.

Stop people flying abroad on shopping tripsm cut down demand for flights and
educe pollution.

Flying to NY an back uses as much energy as you are likely to use for teh
rest of the year in your house AND car.

Finally stop this ridcuous congestion charge. Is it about traffic or
pollution? If traffic then why give Hybrids the free pass? If pollution all
you are doing is filling the cars with electricty that was created outside
of london, ie giving us you problems again.

[Grant Mitchell]

Post by bill
If you read his column yesterday you'll see that he SAYS he was in an
organisation of "cheerful sadists" and that it was hyperviolent.He
says it was scouts.
I REALLY don't recognise either of these terms as representative of
scouting as I've known it.
By saying this sort of rubbish he is likely to put off adult
volunteers, in my view. I wish someone would invite him to see what
scouting is actually like -as opposed to scouting on Planet Godwin....

As a young Scout 25 years or so ago my Troop played a lot of violent
games and the older, bigger Scouts used their size advantage to bully
the younger ones a bit. I think the description above wouldn't have been
too far off.

Fortunately a new leader took over the Troop, instilled some discipline
and the troublemakers left, or I don't think I would have been here now.

Grant
ASL, 1st Disley

[Ian]

Post by Grant Mitchell
As a young Scout 25 years or so ago my Troop played a lot of violent
games and the older, bigger Scouts used their size advantage to bully
the younger ones a bit.  I think the description above wouldn't have been
too far off.

Almost all the PLs in my troop, and hal of the leaders. were expelled
in one fell swoop after the reign of terror they ran at summer camps -
while the leaders were down the pub - ended with one young scout
airlifted to hospital with a life-threatening asthma attack. When he
collapsed they thought beating him with bramble stems was appropriate
treatment. Things were very much more pleasant on Friday evenings
after that.

Ian

[Grant Mitchell]

Post by Ian

Post by Grant Mitchell
As a young Scout 25 years or so ago my Troop played a lot of violent
games and the older, bigger Scouts used their size advantage to bully
the younger ones a bit. I think the description above wouldn't have been
too far off.

Almost all the PLs in my troop, and hal of the leaders. were expelled
in one fell swoop after the reign of terror they ran at summer camps -
while the leaders were down the pub - ended with one young scout
airlifted to hospital with a life-threatening asthma attack. When he
collapsed they thought beating him with bramble stems was appropriate
treatment. Things were very much more pleasant on Friday evenings
after that.

Fortunately my Troop never went so far as that - although had the situation
arisen I'm not sure they would have dealt with it any better. When I joined
the
Troop there was a story (possibly exaggerated) about a recent night hike
where
the leaders had sat in the pub and not realised the Scouts hadn't got back
until
several hours after they were overdue.

Sometimes I look back and think things were better before the health &
safety
culture kicked in - but there were definitely some practices we are right to
have
stopped.

Grant
ASL, 1st Disley