Goretex vs alternatives vs Ventile

[Gooders]

I'm in the market for a new waterproof. In the past I've bought the
Goretex alternatives (Milatex, Isotex etc) but I've found that they
last 12-18 months and then start to leak. I have tried the wash in
reproofers with limited success - usually easiest to get a new one.
I'm wondering whether pukka Goretex (at 2-3 times the price) lasts any
longer and is worth the money. Any thoughts?

But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.

Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?

Regards,

Stephen

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Post by Gooders
But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.
Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?

No, but I read that too and was thinking just the same thing,

When I was a lad the VS from the other district unit always wore these
bright orange cotton smocks for hikes and we took the piss because we had
NYLON!!!!

Looking back I wander if that was ventile, in which case I might owe 20 or
so belated apologies...

[mike_sitv]

Post by Stephen Rainsbury
Looking back I wander if that was ventile, in which case I might owe 20 or
so belated apologies...

Probably

I had a ventile jacket when I started out some 30+ years ago, lasted
for 20 at least, as John sayus in time the only problem was where the
shoulder straps of a rucsac fitted

I did not realise they were still around or I might not have gone for
a goretex earlier in the year

wWhy is is gear is like lightbulbs and all wear out together, thi shas
been an expesive year for walking, climbin g and camping gear

Mike

[c***@googlemail.com]

Post by mike_sitv

Post by Stephen Rainsbury
Looking back I wander if that was ventile, in which case I might owe 20 or
so belated apologies...

Probably
I had a ventile jacket when I started out some 30+ years ago, lasted
for 20 at least, as John sayus in time the only problem was where the
shoulder straps of a rucsac fitted
I did not realise they were still around or I might not have gone for
a goretex earlier in the year
wWhy is is gear is like lightbulbs and all wear out together, thi shas
been an expesive year for walking, climbin g and camping gear
Mike

I'm happy to accept that climbing and safety gear etc should be
regularly renewed but I find goretex jackets "wearing out" very
annoying, they're not cheap and its not as if I've worn holes in it,
but all of a sudden it just stops being waterproof, maybe I'm asking
too much from it, is 5 years use from a goretex jacket acceptable?
Maybe I should check if it has some sort of waterproof warranty

[chris.5th]

Post by c***@googlemail.com

Post by mike_sitv

Post by Stephen Rainsbury
Looking back I wander if that was ventile, in which case I might owe 20 or
so belated apologies...

Probably
I had a ventile jacket when I started out some 30+ years ago, lasted
for 20 at least, as John sayus in time the only problem was where the
shoulder straps of a rucsac fitted
I did not realise they were still around or I might not have gone for
a goretex earlier in the year
wWhy is is gear is like lightbulbs and all wear out together, thi shas
been an expesive year for walking, climbin g and camping gear
Mike

I'm happy to accept that climbing and safety gear etc should be
regularly renewed but I find goretex jackets "wearing out" very
annoying, they're not cheap and its not as if I've worn holes in it,
but all of a sudden it just stops being waterproof, maybe I'm asking
too much from it, is 5 years use from a goretex jacket acceptable?
Maybe I should check if it has some sort of waterproof warranty

my North Face waterproof jacket is still waterproof after ten years of
heavy use. (putting up tents, walking up mountains, wearing to work..
all sorts)

always buy 3 layer gore-tex, not 2. it makes a difference. wash
carefully with nikwax stuff and keep on reproofing it. it needs a DWR
(durable water repellancy) to help it.

and remember... goretex stops breathing in the wet. (well... pretty
much) so don't expect too much. other people swear buy paramo stuff
(rather heavier) perhaps you should look at that...?

[John Russell]

Post by mike_sitv

Post by Stephen Rainsbury
Looking back I wander if that was ventile, in which case I might owe 20 or
so belated apologies...

Probably
I had a ventile jacket when I started out some 30+ years ago, lasted
for 20 at least, as John sayus in time the only problem was where the
shoulder straps of a rucsac fitted

The other advantage of ventile is, being a natural fibre, it is quiet. I
remember coming down Catstye Cam one still day and hearing this bird call I
didn't recognise. It must have been a shy bird because whenever I stopped
to look for it it stopped calling. It was 20 minutes before I realised it
was the sound of my self-winding watch self winding as I walked. (This was
before the days of digital watches with batteries, you understand!)

[John Russell]

Post by Gooders
I'm in the market for a new waterproof. In the past I've bought the
Goretex alternatives (Milatex, Isotex etc) but I've found that they
last 12-18 months and then start to leak. I have tried the wash in
reproofers with limited success - usually easiest to get a new one.
I'm wondering whether pukka Goretex (at 2-3 times the price) lasts any
longer and is worth the money. Any thoughts?
But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.
Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?

I've still got a ventile jacket that's about 30 years old. Trouble is, I
can't get it on anymore without my arms sticking straight out. If I could
I'd still be using it. Waterproof, windproof, breathable, robust,
comfortable. The only problem was when carrying rucksacs all day in heavy
rain you got wet shoulders around the straps.

And I think it must shrink over the years, otherwise I'd still be able to
get it on.

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Post by John Russell
And I think it must shrink over the years, otherwise I'd still be able to
get it on.

Nylon does that too, I still have (and occasionaly use) the anorak I
had for my QSA, it was baggey enough for a jumper underneath back
then, but now it is snug just as it is.

SBR

[Brian Smith]

Post by Gooders
I'm in the market for a new waterproof. In the past I've bought the
Goretex alternatives (Milatex, Isotex etc) but I've found that they
last 12-18 months and then start to leak. I have tried the wash in
reproofers with limited success - usually easiest to get a new one.
I'm wondering whether pukka Goretex (at 2-3 times the price) lasts any
longer and is worth the money. Any thoughts?
But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.
Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?
Regards,
Stephen

I am still using both a Goretex and a Ventile jacket that are each
around 20+ years old. I tend to use the Goretex if the weather is warm
and the Ventile if it's not.

Goretex is also rather noisy when you move. I've got a couple of pairs
of Ventile trousers but sadly they seem to have shrunk a bit around the
waist ;-)

[Paul Harris]

Post by Brian Smith
Goretex is also rather noisy when you move. I've got a couple of pairs
of Ventile trousers but sadly they seem to have shrunk a bit around the
waist ;-)

I have noticed several reports recently of similar things happening with
Scout Uniforms and Water Proofs. The rather solution obviously for
anyone considering buying any of these items is if you want them to fit
in the future buy at least two to three sizes too big now. There that
was easy, problem solved.

[badger.badger]

Post by Gooders
I'm in the market for a new waterproof. In the past I've bought the
Goretex alternatives (Milatex, Isotex etc) but I've found that they
last 12-18 months and then start to leak. I have tried the wash in
reproofers with limited success - usually easiest to get a new one.
I'm wondering whether pukka Goretex (at 2-3 times the price) lasts any
longer and is worth the money. Any thoughts?
But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.
Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?
Regards,
Stephen

If cost v weather resistance is an issue surplus camo goretex is very
good value, smock and trousers £30!

[Alan]

Post by Gooders
I'm in the market for a new waterproof. In the past I've bought the
Goretex alternatives (Milatex, Isotex etc) but I've found that they
last 12-18 months and then start to leak. I have tried the wash in
reproofers with limited success - usually easiest to get a new one.
I'm wondering whether pukka Goretex (at 2-3 times the price) lasts any
longer and is worth the money. Any thoughts?
But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.
Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?
Regards,
Stephen

If cost v weather resistance is an issue surplus camo goretex is very good
value, smock and trousers £30!

goretex is issued to the services so it cant be that bad

[marc]

Post by Alan

If cost v weather resistance is an issue surplus camo goretex is very good
value, smock and trousers £30!

goretex is issued to the services so it cant be that bad

The one thing that scared Alan Shepard as he lay in a pool of his own
urine, on top of a Redstone rocket, inside a Mercury capsule, was that
every one of the thousands of parts in the rocket had been supplied by
the lowest bidder. Sometimes gear for the services isn't the best.

[badger.badger]

Post by marc

Post by Alan

Post by badger.badger
If cost v weather resistance is an issue surplus camo goretex is very
good value, smock and trousers £30!

goretex is issued to the services so it cant be that bad

The one thing that scared Alan Shepard as he lay in a pool of his own
urine, on top of a Redstone rocket, inside a Mercury capsule, was that
every one of the thousands of parts in the rocket had been supplied by
the lowest bidder. Sometimes gear for the services isn't the best.

You might be right, my smock is 'special services' camo goretex,
different cut and fit with some other differences in pocket locations
and the like, atleast 8 years old and atleast 3 previous users and its
still water proof, as tonights storms have proven again.

[NJ]

Post by Gooders
I'm in the market for a new waterproof. In the past I've bought the
Goretex alternatives (Milatex, Isotex etc) but I've found that they
last 12-18 months and then start to leak. I have tried the wash in
reproofers with limited success - usually easiest to get a new one.
I'm wondering whether pukka Goretex (at 2-3 times the price) lasts any
longer and is worth the money. Any thoughts?
But, then again, the latest Bushcraft magazine has an interesting
article on Ventile. Looking on the internet there's a premium of about
£50 over a Goretex jacket, but the article suggests that they last
forever. However, I don't know anyone that has one to get an opinion.
Does anyone have any practical experience of Ventile (good or bad) to
share?
Regards,
Stephen

I have some authority on waterproofs (I have worked for a well know
outdoors retailer for the past 4 years and am a "gore-tex consultant")

Ventile it is a tightly woven fabric (cotton) coated with a DWR
(durable water repelency). very poor HH (hydrostatic head) of less
than 1000 mm. but is very breathable. works like a cotten tent. is
likly to leak around bag staps due to pressure. not very good but
cheap

the alternatives ( anything except gore tex ending in tex, hyvent,
aquafoil etc etc)
these are all hydrophillic. basically a chemical reaction takes place
that pulls the water through the waterprooof laminate. TOTALLY
DIFFERENT METHOD TO GORETEX AND EVENT. very waterproof (3000mm +) good
breathability. a good alternative to the ones below except not as
durable. expect a lifespan of approx 2 -3 years for average use.

Gore-tex and eVent
ePTFE and an oliphobic substance. this material has microscopic holes
that allow water vapour through but not water droplets. extreemly
waterproof, extreemly breathable, good durability. expect 5-10 years
of regular use

Goretex XCR 25% more breathable than regular goretex (as durable)

Goretex Paclite lighter weight than normal goretex not as durable(2-3
years use)

eVent is a recent development (in the past few years the patent ended
on gore-tex). eVent applys the oliophobic substance in a different was
that results in increased breathability ( approx 200% i have been
told). you will be seeing more and more of this stuff. many
manurfacturers are replacing there Goretex items with eVent.

if your looking for durability buy the 3 layer versions of garments
and not the two layer version (two layer versions have netting or
loose fabric on the inside). although 2 layer is lighter in weight.

and remember if a jacket is not beeding (forming droplets on the
surface) you need to reactivate the DWR (stick it in the tumble dryer
but check the care lable) and if that fails you need to reproof it.

hope some of that helps, if you want me to expand on anything ask.

NJ

(sorry about my spelling)