subs

[bill]

Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?

The best I ever had was a Treasurer who visited each section and
collected the money, issuing receipts accordingly and recording what
was received.

Now, as a new GSL to this group, we've started standing orders to
little effect. traditionally, though , leaders have money dropped onto
them by parents and kids and I cannot tell who's paid. I 've asked
leaders to drop subs into Treasurer but they haven't. And they've
spent money from what they've collected.

it's a nightmare.

We've a proper exec now, and they give £10 per kid per section per
term up front, but no-one seems to be able to account for what they
spent last term

I'm working on getting a subs parent per section, which seems a way
out of the situation. But I thought I'd ask before trying to reinvent
the wheel.

TIA

Bill

[MatSav]

Post by bill
Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?

Each section in my Group collects their own subscriptions,
weekly. 50% of the subs is set aside for the Annual Membership
Subscription. At our current rate of £2 per week for about 40
weeks each year, it provides a 'buffer' of about £8 per head that
can cover new members for each year, or unexpected increases in
AMS Precept from District and County.

The task is carried out by volunteer adults from the Exec
Committee.

The Subs are paid into sectional bank accounts by those same
volunteers.

Thus, there's a separation of income from expenditure, in that
the Exec can see how much is coming in, and the sections just
need to show their expenditure.

The sections make a transfer of funds to the main Group account,
on completion of the annual Census and receipt of the Invoice
from our District.

[bill]

Post by MatSav

Post by bill
Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?

Each section in my Group collects their own subscriptions,
weekly. 50% of the subs is set aside for the Annual Membership
Subscription. At our current rate of £2 per week for about 40
weeks each year, it provides a 'buffer' of about £8 per head that
can cover new members for each year, or unexpected increases in
AMS Precept from District and County.
The task is carried out by volunteer adults from the Exec
Committee.
The Subs are paid into sectional bank accounts by those same
volunteers.
Thus, there's a separation of income from expenditure, in that
the Exec can see how much is coming in, and the sections just
need to show their expenditure.
The sections make a transfer of funds to the main Group account,
on completion of the annual Census and receipt of the Invoice
from our District.
--
MatSav

Interesting! Thanks.
do the adult volunteers chase non-payers? or is that down to the
leaders?

The more I look into this the more complex it gets- I can see reasons
why we might want to prevent chasing of "can't pays", and perhaps the
fact they're can't pays needs to be secret. I don't want section
leaders to have to do non-programme things, wherever possible, so I
can see your system works towards that.
I'm a bit concerned that control of section funds is entirely with the
sections- ie doesn't pass through the group's books, tho. About 15
yrs ago a local group had a leader abscond with over £500 cash. He was
caught and prosecuted but the money never retrieved.

Anyway food for thought for me, thanks

[John Russell]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 00:15:27 -0800 (PST), bill

Post by bill
I'm a bit concerned that control of section funds is entirely with the
sections- ie doesn't pass through the group's books, tho. About 15
yrs ago a local group had a leader abscond with over £500 cash. He was
caught and prosecuted but the money never retrieved.

'Control of section funds' and 'doesn't pass through the group's
books' are two different things. We (the section) collect subs at £25
a term, then when all subs are in I pay £10 a head to Group and the
Group deals with capitation. The £15 a head is Section funds. At the
end of each term I give the Group Treasurer a full account of income
and expenditure with bank statements and receipts which he
consolidates with Group accounts. So the Section controls funds, but
it is all recorded in the Group's books. The Section bank account
needs two signatures but, yes, I could do a bunk with the money. But
the way I look at is the Group and each parent are trusting me, every
Monday night, with something worth a lot more than £500. And, as they
say, if you lend a bloke £20 and never see him again it was probably
worth it.

[Ewan Scott]

Post by John Russell
On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 00:15:27 -0800 (PST), bill

Post by bill
I'm a bit concerned that control of section funds is entirely with the
sections- ie doesn't pass through the group's books, tho. About 15
yrs ago a local group had a leader abscond with over £500 cash. He was
caught and prosecuted but the money never retrieved.

'Control of section funds' and 'doesn't pass through the group's
books' are two different things. We (the section) collect subs at £25
a term, then when all subs are in I pay £10 a head to Group and the
Group deals with capitation. The £15 a head is Section funds. At the
end of each term I give the Group Treasurer a full account of income
and expenditure with bank statements and receipts which he
consolidates with Group accounts. So the Section controls funds, but
it is all recorded in the Group's books. The Section bank account
needs two signatures but, yes, I could do a bunk with the money. But
the way I look at is the Group and each parent are trusting me, every
Monday night, with something worth a lot more than £500. And, as they
say, if you lend a bloke £20 and never see him again it was probably
worth it.

AS DC I went to a couple of AGMs and was astonished at how poorly accounts
were kept. One, I just couldn't figure out was how a group could do so much
and have such low turnover. I did a quick calculation based on their weekly
subs and actual numbers and their subs alone exceeded their annual turnover.
So I stopped the meeting and asked, ( there were no parents attending) how
they managed to report a lower turnover than they rather obviously had in
income?

The Treasurer said,"Well we don't include the section accounts, just the
money they pay to the Group."

So, all the sectional subs, and all the activity fees, camp fees were
retained in section and not accounted for in the annual accounts. Once the
correct accounts were represented at a rescheduled meeting there was about a
£6,000 difference.

I sometimes wonder what bit of accounting for every penny people don't
understand.

Ewan Scott

[John Russell]

On Wed, 29 Dec 2010 16:38:33 +0000, John Russell

Post by John Russell
'Control of section funds' and 'doesn't pass through the group's
books' are two different things. We (the section) collect subs at £25
a term, then when all subs are in I pay £10 a head to Group and the
Group deals with capitation. The £15 a head is Section funds. At the
end of each term I give the Group Treasurer a full account of income
and expenditure with bank statements and receipts which he
consolidates with Group accounts. So the Section controls funds, but
it is all recorded in the Group's books. The Section bank account
needs two signatures but, yes, I could do a bunk with the money. But
the way I look at is the Group and each parent are trusting me, every
Monday night, with something worth a lot more than £500. And, as they
say, if you lend a bloke £20 and never see him again it was probably
worth it.

Woops, bit of wishful thinking there! - just been doing end of term
accounts and, of course, out of the £25 it's £15 that goes to Group
and £10 we keep!

[Gooders]

"bill" wrote in message news:8176c5bc-4366-40af-8c5b-***@g26g2000vba.googlegroups.com...

Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?

The best I ever had was a Treasurer who visited each section and
collected the money, issuing receipts accordingly and recording what
was received.

Now, as a new GSL to this group, we've started standing orders to
little effect. traditionally, though , leaders have money dropped onto
them by parents and kids and I cannot tell who's paid. I 've asked
leaders to drop subs into Treasurer but they haven't. And they've
spent money from what they've collected.

it's a nightmare.

We've a proper exec now, and they give £10 per kid per section per
term up front, but no-one seems to be able to account for what they
spent last term

I'm working on getting a subs parent per section, which seems a way
out of the situation. But I thought I'd ask before trying to reinvent
the wheel.

TIA

Bill


Let's start by saying that I hate subs, it has become an increasing
nightmare.

In our Group each section has a Leader designated to collect subs. I collect
for the Scout Troop ( I also collect for Explorers using the same process
although the money goes elsewhere).

At the start of each half-term each child receives a slip requesting the
subs for that half term (plus any outstanding). If I've not received any
money within a fortnight a reminder is sent. At the start of the next
half-term any non-payers are referred to the GSL and she 'has a word' with
the parents.

At the moment, our subs position is pretty good but at the start of the
Autumn term we were so far in arrears that it was untrue. I currently have
one that is a year in arrears - but I know the reason for that. The main
problem for me is that we see very few parents and those that I do see are
usually good payers anyway.

As far as I know, non-leaders never get involved in subs.

An interesting sub-discussion would be about sanctions for non-payment. Is
it fair to punish the children for the failings of the parents?

Stephen

[bill]

Post by bill
Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?
The best I ever had was a Treasurer who visited each section and
collected the money, issuing receipts accordingly and recording what
was received.
Now, as a new GSL to this group, we've started standing orders to
little effect. traditionally, though , leaders have money dropped onto
them by parents and kids and I cannot tell who's paid. I 've asked
leaders to drop subs into Treasurer but they haven't. And they've
spent money from what they've collected.
it's a nightmare.
We've a proper exec now, and they give 10 per kid per section per
term up front, but no-one seems to be able to account for what they
spent last term
I'm working on getting a subs parent per section, which seems a way
out of the situation. But I thought I'd ask before trying to reinvent
the wheel.
TIA
Bill
Let's start by saying that I hate subs, it has become an increasing
nightmare.
In our Group each section has a Leader designated to collect subs. I collect
for the Scout Troop ( I also collect for Explorers using the same process
although the money goes elsewhere).
At the start of each half-term each child receives a slip requesting the
subs for that half term (plus any outstanding). If I've not received any
money within a fortnight a reminder is sent. At the start of the next
half-term any non-payers are referred to the GSL and she 'has a word' with
the parents.
At the moment, our subs position is pretty good but at the start of the
Autumn term we were so far in arrears that it was untrue. I currently have
one that is a year in arrears - but I know the reason for that. The main
problem for me is that we see very few parents and those that I do see are
usually good payers anyway.
As far as I know, non-leaders never get involved in subs.
An interesting sub-discussion would be about sanctions for non-payment. Is
it fair to punish the children for the failings of the parents?
Stephen

"An interesting sub-discussion would be about sanctions for non-
payment"

indeed.

I can stomach parents who are poor and say I can't pay; I can't stand
those who aren't poor but don't pay.
We have several poor parents; they all DO pay. We had one well-off
family who didn't Their child stayed for 3 years, and my predecessor
never got a penny from him.

Whether it was his fault in any way, I don't know.

[Paul Symons]

We invoice direct to parents either anually or six monthly, their
choice, either by post or by email.

Parents pay me on a Friday night, I pass to the treasurer.

If they don't pay inside a month they get a reminder letter.

If they don't pay then I speak to the parents and tell them that said
child will not be able to continue. Child preassure then normally does
the rest.

Genuine hardship cases are dealt with compasionatly.

Paul Symons
GSL 18th Edmonton

[Chris.5th]

Post by bill
Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?
The best I ever had was a Treasurer who visited each section and
collected the money, issuing receipts accordingly and recording what
was received.
Now, as a new GSL to this group, we've started standing orders to
little effect. traditionally, though , leaders have money dropped onto
them by parents and kids and I cannot tell who's paid. I 've asked
leaders to drop subs into Treasurer but they haven't. And they've
spent money from what they've collected.
it's a nightmare.
We've a proper exec now, and they give £10 per kid per section per
term up front, but no-one seems to be able to account for what they
spent last term
I'm working on getting a subs parent per section, which seems a way
out of the situation. But I thought I'd ask before trying to reinvent
the wheel.
TIA
Bill

all subs paid centrally to main group account. £45/term before half
term and £50 if paid after half term.

we have a nive lady who collects and banks the cheques. She also makes
a note of all paypal payments.

she does the chasing.

leaders never see the subs. they get stuck in the subs drawer for
collection by nice lady. (very very nice lady... no sane person would
want the job)

The sections get cash floats that they have to justify with receipts.

Most things are paid for centrally and the cash floats cover craft
stuff, ingredients and guff like that.

Payment is by cheque or (ideally) paypal. It would be very easy to
offer bank transfer. We might do that soon.

I email the parents the subs requests and no paper notice goes out. If
people haven't paid before half term, they get a reminder and if it is
because we got the email address wrong, they pay the lower amount.

<history>
when i became LiC 5 or 6 years ago, i took over from a group
administrator and contact. He did the subs, the gift aid, the
accounts, the address lists, the census, insurance, everything. If he
had been run over by a bus, we'd have been screwed.

I distributed the work. We have a subs person (who is doing gift aid
now), we have a treasurer (who is legendary and brilliant), i do the
address lists and census. The waiting lists are dealt with by the
sections with me trying to keep an eye on numbers. I have also
recruited a secretary who does all the insurance stuff and we have a
fellah in charge of all the minubus stuff.

If I were to be knocked down by a bus, the group would survive without
too much effort.
</history>

[bill]

Post by Chris.5th

Post by bill
Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?
The best I ever had was a Treasurer who visited each section and
collected the money, issuing receipts accordingly and recording what
was received.
Now, as a new GSL to this group, we've started standing orders to
little effect. traditionally, though , leaders have money dropped onto
them by parents and kids and I cannot tell who's paid. I 've asked
leaders to drop subs into Treasurer but they haven't. And they've
spent money from what they've collected.
it's a nightmare.
We've a proper exec now, and they give £10 per kid per section per
term up front, but no-one seems to be able to account for what they
spent last term
I'm working on getting a subs parent per section, which seems a way
out of the situation. But I thought I'd ask before trying to reinvent
the wheel.
TIA
Bill

all subs paid centrally to main group account. £45/term before half
term and £50 if paid after half term.
we have a nive lady who collects and banks the cheques. She also makes
a note of all paypal payments.
she does the chasing.
leaders never see the subs. they get stuck in the subs drawer for
collection by nice lady. (very very nice lady... no sane person would
want the job)
The sections get cash floats that they have to justify with receipts.
Most things are paid for centrally and the cash floats cover craft
stuff, ingredients and guff like that.
Payment is by cheque or (ideally) paypal.  It would be very easy to
offer bank transfer. We might do that soon.
I email the parents the subs requests and no paper notice goes out. If
people haven't paid before half term, they get a reminder and if it is
because we got the email address wrong, they pay the lower amount.
<history>
when i became LiC 5 or 6 years ago, i took over from a group
administrator and contact. He did the subs, the gift aid, the
accounts, the address lists, the census, insurance, everything. If he
had been run over by a bus, we'd have been screwed.
I distributed the work. We have a subs person (who is doing gift aid
now), we have a treasurer (who is legendary and brilliant), i do the
address lists and census. The waiting lists are dealt with by the
sections with me trying to keep an eye on numbers. I have also
recruited a secretary who does all the insurance stuff and we have a
fellah in charge of all the minubus stuff.
If I were to be knocked down by a bus, the group would survive without
too much effort.
</history>

Thanks, all.
It seems there are many approaches, as I'd expected.
Many of them seem to me to put too much non-leader work onto leaders.
Some seem to me to lack control.
I'm thinking of kidnapping Chris's nice lady....

[Chris Atkinson]

In message

Post by Chris.5th
<history>
when i became LiC 5 or 6 years ago, i took over from a group
administrator and contact. He did the subs, the gift aid, the
accounts, the address lists, the census, insurance, everything. If he
had been run over by a bus, we'd have been screwed.
I distributed the work.
If I were to be knocked down by a bus, the group would survive without
too much effort.
</history>

Uh oh! Shomething wrong here. Leader dshplaying what looksh ominoushly
like 'common senshe' . No telling where thish might lead. Where would we
be if everyone shtarted acting like thish?
Chrish A.

[AndyW]

Post by Chris Atkinson
Uh oh! Shomething wrong here. Leader dshplaying what looksh ominoushly
like 'common senshe' . No telling where thish might lead. Where would we
be if everyone shtarted acting like thish?

Best Sean Connery impression ever!!!

Andy

[Chris Atkinson]

Post by AndyW

Post by Chris Atkinson
Uh oh! Shomething wrong here. Leader dshplaying what looksh ominoushly
like 'common senshe' . No telling where thish might lead. Where would we
be if everyone shtarted acting like thish?

Best Sean Connery impression ever!!!

Thanks, but I was just running these teeth in for someone else.
Chris A.

[Damian]

Post by bill
Can anyone tell me how they physically collect subs, please?
The best I ever had was a Treasurer who visited each section and
collected the money, issuing receipts accordingly and recording what
was received.
Now, as a new GSL to this group, we've started standing orders to
little effect. traditionally, though , leaders have money dropped onto
them by parents and kids and I cannot tell who's paid. I 've asked
leaders to drop subs into Treasurer but they haven't. And they've
spent money from what they've collected.
it's a nightmare.
We've a proper exec now, and they give £10 per kid per section per
term up front, but no-one seems to be able to account for what they
spent last term
I'm working on getting a subs parent per section, which seems a way
out of the situation. But I thought I'd ask before trying to reinvent
the wheel.
TIA
Bill

We charge £25 per term, including capitation, and this is given to the
Section Leaders at the start of each term in a sealed envelope with
the Cub or Scouts name on the outside - preferably by cheque.

Damian