Histoical inaccuracy

[Tim Hall]

Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.

Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?

One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?

Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?

I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

[Chris.5th]

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII.  There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?

akelas were traditionally women! cubs started in ww1a and the men were
away at war.

Post by Tim Hall
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?
--
Tim

[Chris.5th]

Post by Tim Hall
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?

http://www.escouts.org.uk/forum/showpost.php?p=110602&postcount=21

cub on far left seems to have his badges on the sleeve... he has
badges that the other cubs don't... a sixer perhaps?

[Tony D]

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?
--
Tim

The majority of Cubmistresses were female. Of course Wolf Cubs started in
1916. And yes, a sixer did wear his yellow stripes on his sleeve, (they
went all the way round). Jerseys were green. It was a 2 finger salute. All
this was still the same when I was a wolf cub.

Tony

[Chris Atkinson]

Post by Tony D

Post by Tim Hall
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?

The majority of Cubmistresses were female. Of course Wolf Cubs started in
1916. And yes, a sixer did wear his yellow stripes on his sleeve, (they
went all the way round). Jerseys were green. It was a 2 finger salute. All
this was still the same when I was a wolf cub.

When I joined the 15th Wembley Wolf Cubs in 1944 (okay, stop doing the
arithmetic ;^) my Akela was a Mr Penny (I guess he's got a lot to answer
for). Yes, as a Sixer, the bands went around my arm; and yes, I wore a
scratchy green jersey.
The other bits of 'decoration' that we were always keen to get, were the
metal service star that you wore on your Cub cap - after two years you
had both 'eyes' open.
One evening Mr Penny told us that the war was over. I went home and made
a morse 'v' in some fresh cement that my Dad had just laid ... it wasn't
a good move.
Chris A.

[Mike Parsons]

On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:31:31 +0100, Tim Hall

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Cub Scouts wore a green itchy jersey. I am not sure when the jersey
changed to a sweatshirt.

Did Cub Scouts in a Sea Scout Group wear a navy blue jersey?

Was the two fingered salute meant to repesent the two Cub Scout Laws?

Mike

Cub Scout 1956 - 1959

[bill]

Post by Mike Parsons
On Sun, 10 Oct 2010 15:31:31 +0100, Tim Hall

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII.  There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Cub Scouts wore a green itchy jersey.  I am not sure when the jersey
changed to a sweatshirt.
Did Cub Scouts in a Sea Scout Group wear a navy blue jersey?
Was the two fingered salute meant to repesent the two Cub Scout Laws?
Mike
Cub Scout 1956 - 1959- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

I thought the two finger were supposed to represent the ears of the
wolf. I was never told they represented the two laws.

We had a group locally who wore blue jerseys but weren't sea scouts
(cubs). My recollection is that there were no sea cubs and so I don't
think sea scout groups had cubs in blue.

[Ewan Scott]

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes,

Yes

Maybe

and "what do you expect"


Back to the jumper...

When I joined Cubs back in 1964-5 One pack had a green jersey, the other had
a blue one (we were not Seas Scouts). I seem to recall reading that there
was in fact no rigid uniform right up till the 1960's. There was a
recommendation, but groups often used what they could get.

Ewan Scott

[rocoho]

Post by Ewan Scott

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII.  There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes,
Yes
Maybe
and "what do you expect"
Back to the jumper...
When I joined Cubs back in 1964-5 One pack had a green jersey, the other had
a blue one (we were not Seas Scouts). I seem to recall reading that there
was in fact no rigid uniform right up till the 1960's. There was a
recommendation, but groups often used what they could get.

Dipping into my booklet wolf cub tests and how to pass them date 1952
priced 10d

cub salute the two fingers salute are the two ears of the wolf

uniform
cap - green with yellow piping
scarf - group colour with woggle other than gilwell pattern or loose
knot
jersy - dark blue , khaki, green or grey , sleaves down or rolled up
at discretion of the cubmaster. ( must admit I thought it was greeen
only)
shorts- dark blue , khaki, grey or green.
stockings any plain colour worn tuned down below the knee, with green
tabbed garter showing outside
Boots or shoes - Brown or black
sixer - uniform as wolf cub with 2 rows of yellow llama braid 1/2
inch
wide 1 inch apart worn abouve the left elbow

second - 1 row as above

senior sixer 3 rows


Interestingly part of the test include semaphore , morse code eight
points of compass, clove hitch and bowline etc

[bill]

Post by rocoho

Post by Ewan Scott

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII.  There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes,
Yes
Maybe
and "what do you expect"
Back to the jumper...
When I joined Cubs back in 1964-5 One pack had a green jersey, the other had
a blue one (we were not Seas Scouts). I seem to recall reading that there
was in fact no rigid uniform right up till the 1960's. There was a
recommendation, but groups often used what they could get.

Dipping into my booklet wolf cub tests and how to pass them date 1952
priced 10d
cub salute the two fingers salute are the two ears of the wolf
uniform
cap - green with yellow piping
scarf - group colour with woggle  other than gilwell pattern  or loose
knot
jersy  - dark blue , khaki, green or grey , sleaves down or rolled up
at discretion of the cubmaster. ( must admit I thought it was greeen
only)
shorts- dark blue , khaki, grey or green.
stockings  any plain colour worn tuned down below the knee, with green
tabbed garter showing outside
Boots or shoes - Brown or black
sixer - uniform   as wolf cub with 2 rows of yellow llama braid  1/2
inch
 wide  1 inch apart  worn abouve the left elbow
second - 1 row as above
senior sixer  3 rows
Interestingly part of the test include semaphore , morse code  eight
points of compass, clove hitch and bowline etc- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

's also interesting to look at some of the games and prog ideas -for
example "Cub Games" and Gilcrafts "How to run a pack".
I don't subscribe to the "A levels get easier every year brigade" but
todays scouts would find many of these games and ideas quite
challenging. I wonder if cubs in the 50s took to them, or whether they
were flummoxed.
As an aside a week or so back we tried to run a bingo game for cubs,
where they had to speak to other pack members to find out about them,
and tick the box when they found one who fitted the bill (e.g. "been
to America"; "got a brother or sister" "walks to school").
Fewer than half could read the words well enough to play.

[John Moppett]

Post by bill

Post by rocoho

Post by Ewan Scott

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes,
Yes
Maybe
and "what do you expect"
Back to the jumper...
When I joined Cubs back in 1964-5 One pack had a green jersey, the other had
a blue one (we were not Seas Scouts). I seem to recall reading that there
was in fact no rigid uniform right up till the 1960's. There was a
recommendation, but groups often used what they could get.

Dipping into my booklet wolf cub tests and how to pass them date 1952
priced 10d
cub salute the two fingers salute are the two ears of the wolf
uniform
cap - green with yellow piping
scarf - group colour with woggle other than gilwell pattern or loose
knot
jersy - dark blue , khaki, green or grey , sleaves down or rolled up
at discretion of the cubmaster. ( must admit I thought it was greeen
only)
shorts- dark blue , khaki, grey or green.
stockings any plain colour worn tuned down below the knee, with green
tabbed garter showing outside
Boots or shoes - Brown or black
sixer - uniform as wolf cub with 2 rows of yellow llama braid 1/2
inch
wide 1 inch apart worn abouve the left elbow
second - 1 row as above
senior sixer 3 rows
Interestingly part of the test include semaphore , morse code eight
points of compass, clove hitch and bowline etc- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -

's also interesting to look at some of the games and prog ideas -for
example "Cub Games" and Gilcrafts "How to run a pack".
I don't subscribe to the "A levels get easier every year brigade" but
todays scouts would find many of these games and ideas quite
challenging. I wonder if cubs in the 50s took to them, or whether they
were flummoxed.
As an aside a week or so back we tried to run a bingo game for cubs,
where they had to speak to other pack members to find out about them,
and tick the box when they found one who fitted the bill (e.g. "been
to America"; "got a brother or sister" "walks to school").
Fewer than half could read the words well enough to play.

I was a Cub for nthe back half of the 1960's and have no recollection of
any problems understanding the games, or programme.

[Ewan Scott]

jersy - dark blue , khaki, green or grey , sleaves down or rolled up
at discretion of the cubmaster. ( must admit I thought it was greeen
only)


Now that you mention it, I do recall one lot of Cubs on camp wearing grey
jerseys. When we asked, (remember even the posh bits of Glasgow in the
1960's were impacted by bigotry), the Akela turned around and said with a
look of disapproval, "Oh them, they're Catholics."

Ewan Scott

[Alfonso]

Post by Ewan Scott

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes,
Yes
Maybe
and "what do you expect"
Back to the jumper...
When I joined Cubs back in 1964-5 One pack had a green jersey, the other
had a blue one (we were not Seas Scouts). I seem to recall reading that
there was in fact no rigid uniform right up till the 1960's. There was a
recommendation, but groups often used what they could get.

I looked it up in my 1959 POR and you are correct that there were
several colours.
Cap - Green with yellow piping with Wolf's head badge
Scarf - Of Group colours
Jersey - Dark Blue, Khaki, Green or Grey: sleeves down or rolled up, at
the discretion of the CM.
Shorts Dark Blue, karki, green or grey.
Stockings Any plain colour turned down below the knee with green tabbed
garter showing outside.

Post by Ewan Scott
Ewan Scott

[Alfonso]

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?

Yes. Most Akelas were female. I was a cub a bit later 1950 - and had a
female Akela.

Post by Tim Hall
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?

No. Until 1966? Scouting was pretty much as BP had laid it down. I have
a POR dated 1959. A pack was divided into Sixes. Each Six had a Sixer
who wore "Two yellow armlets" and a Second who wore one. It was optional
as to whether one of the Sixers was designated as "Senior Sixer" when he
had 3 yellow armlets.

Post by Tim Hall
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?

Yes.

Post by Tim Hall
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes it was. It was the first two fingers separated to form a V - as you
say the ears of the wolf. I believe the Brownie salute was the 2 fingers
close together. Steven Fry in a recent QI got it wrong. I have a vague
recollection that during "grand Howl" where the Sixer Shouted Dyb Dyb
Dyb and the cubs shouted Dob Dob Dob that the salute was made with both
hands but my recollection is vague and it might have been a local
variation.

[Brian Smith]

Post by Alfonso

Post by Tim Hall
Lying in my sick bed this morning, I was reading Leslie Thomas' "Dover
Beach". Like much of his work, it's set during WWII. There is a scene
involving Cubs and their female Akela.
Were women involved in the movement back in 1940?

Yes. Most Akelas were female. I was a cub a bit later 1950 - and had a
female Akela.

Post by Tim Hall
One of the boys has "yellow bands of a senior sixer on his sleeve". I
can't find my Wolf Cub's Handbook at the moment, but were the bands on
the chest, ratherthan the sleeve?

No. Until 1966? Scouting was pretty much as BP had laid it down. I have
a POR dated 1959. A pack was divided into Sixes. Each Six had a Sixer
who wore "Two yellow armlets" and a Second who wore one. It was
optional as to whether one of the Sixers was designated as "Senior
Sixer" when he had 3 yellow armlets.

Post by Tim Hall
Come to that, was the uniform back then a green jersey?

Yes.

Post by Tim Hall
I spotted the usual mistake of "dib, dib, dib" rather than "dyb, dyb,
dyb". And they use a three fingered salute. Wasn't it two fingered,
representing the two ears of the wolf?

Yes it was. It was the first two fingers separated to form a V - as you
say the ears of the wolf. I believe the Brownie salute was the 2
fingers close together. Steven Fry in a recent QI got it wrong. I have
a vague recollection that during "grand Howl" where the Sixer Shouted
Dyb Dyb Dyb and the cubs shouted Dob Dob Dob that the salute was made
with both hands but my recollection is vague and it might have been a
local variation.

It wasn't a local variation. I have the 12th edition of the Wolf Cub's
Handbook (1952) and there is the 9th edition on The Dump website.

Both give identical accounts of the Grand Howl:
'...spring to your feet with two fingers of each hand pointing upwards
at each side of your head, to look like two wolf's ears.'

The illustration shows the fingers are together.

Followed by:

''Then keep your hands up while the leading Cub calls . . . .
"Dyb-dyb-dyb-dyb" (meaning Do Your Best).
Then every Cub after the fourth "dyb" drops his left hand smartly to his
side and keeping his right hand at the salute , with two fingers up, but
now spread out making the salute . . . . '