Booze!

[Shaun Joynson]

Hi guys,

Just happened upon this from the Jan 2012 edition of Scouting

Rule 2.4 Responsibilities within the Child
Protection Policy

d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities. The
Association issues further advice on Alcohol
and Scouting, which is available from the
Information Centre.

Goodness me - I wonder how that is going down? How many camps have I encountered where the leaders were awash with booze?

Don't disagree with it, but I wonder how many leaders realise that drinking at camp is now a CHILD PROTECTION issue?

Mind, surprised there is no rule about smoking in front of kids. Even when I smoked I disagreed with that, but am still amazed at how many leaders still fag it in front of their charges.

If there is anyone still out there, comments would be interesting.

Cheers (pardon the pun).

(Note to LLT at GP. Please put this posting in Chapter 21, Section 63, Page 14 of my file).

[Chris Atkinson]

In message

Post by Shaun Joynson
Just happened upon this from the Jan 2012 edition of Scouting
Rule 2.4 Responsibilities within the Child
Protection Policy
d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities. The
Association issues further advice on Alcohol
and Scouting, which is available from the
Information Centre.
Goodness me - I wonder how that is going down? How many camps have I
encountered where the leaders were awash with booze?
If there is anyone still out there, comments would be interesting.

Well, I consider that if Leaders take their responsibility sensibly then
I think this goes a tad too far to call it a Child Protection issue and
ban it.(perhaps that's a big 'if' for some though ??)

When I used to run our District Patrol Camp (100+ campers with around a
dozen staff) the Leaders all camped in one central site. On the Friday
and Saturday evening I had no objection to Leaders having a drink, or
even two.
This was never abused since we all used to sit around a fire putting the
world to rights - nobody went off-site for drinking. Toasted sarnies
were also on the agenda ... some of them can get truly thermic :-)

Yes Shaun, at least I'm awake - stuck at home after spinal surgery, I'll
look at anything to help pass the time ;^)
Chris A.

[Shaun Joynson]

Yes,

Post by Chris Atkinson
In message

Post by Shaun Joynson
Just happened upon this from the Jan 2012 edition of Scouting
Rule 2.4 Responsibilities within the Child
Protection Policy
d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities. The
Association issues further advice on Alcohol
and Scouting, which is available from the
Information Centre.
Goodness me - I wonder how that is going down? How many camps have I
encountered where the leaders were awash with booze?
If there is anyone still out there, comments would be interesting.

Well, I consider that if Leaders take their responsibility sensibly then
I think this goes a tad too far to call it a Child Protection issue and
ban it.(perhaps that's a big 'if' for some though ??)
When I used to run our District Patrol Camp (100+ campers with around a
dozen staff) the Leaders all camped in one central site. On the Friday
and Saturday evening I had no objection to Leaders having a drink, or
even two.
This was never abused since we all used to sit around a fire putting the
world to rights - nobody went off-site for drinking. Toasted sarnies
were also on the agenda ... some of them can get truly thermic :-)
Yes Shaun, at least I'm awake - stuck at home after spinal surgery, I'll
look at anything to help pass the time ;^)
Chris A.
--
Chris Atkinson
Things are more like they are now than they ever were before.

I seem to remember a bit of a row with a leader in a patrol tent back on a Basic Training course on this subject.

I seem to recall he was the one who used to let his Scouts have a beer round the old camp fire and i rather objected.

I wonder too if this came about from an SA employee I know in an entirely different context who once told me that he was shocked whenever he walked around campsites and saw the amount of booze leaders consumed.

As you say, the duty leader is not normally drinking, but I have seen plenty of camps where this was not the case.

As i say, I don't disagree with it, but just wondered how it went down.

On a slightly different issue. I remember once being at a Scouters council in a Scout Hut the attendees being asked if they thought the Scout Association should become smoke free. To a man, every leader present lit up a fag/pipe/cigar puffed away for a moment and then said 'nope!'.

I presume that it wont' be too long before leaders smoking in front of Scouts will be banned too.

Best Wishes on the old surgery Chris!

Regards

Shaun


Note to LLT at GP, please put this posting in Chapter 43, section 21, page 33 of my file.

[Chris Atkinson]

In message

Post by Shaun Joynson
Best Wishes on the old surgery Chris!

Thanks Shaun, all seems okay so far. It seems I was daft enough to play
rugby when I was at school and in the RAF = damage in the L2,L3 area.
Then I was daft enough to get on a wee bit = osteo-arthritis. When you
add those two together = 'spinal decompression surgery' :-(

I'd already had one surgeon get on at me (" ... did you ever play a
contact sport...?") when I had a knee job. Then this one accused me of
doing nothing about the back injury for 54 years; I told him I was an
absolute coward, since other rugby-playing friends had operations which
did them no good at all.
Still, this time it was force majeure since the MRI scan wouldn't let me
cop out.

Shan't be going to the St George's Day parade today; couldn't cope with
the seating in the Cathedral.
Chris A.

[David Patrick | ADC Comms | Eastleigh District]

Post by Shaun Joynson
d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities.

So does that simply mean that on the evenings that you are rostered to be duty leader, then you are on the Tea and Coffee wagon. Whilst if you are off-duty, surely then you can not be deemed responsible for your young people, and hence able to consume?

This does mean of course, that if you are the Nights Away permit holder, it's Tea'n'Coffee for the whole camp. ;-)

Just a thought???

[AndyW]

Post by Shaun Joynson
Hi guys,
Just happened upon this from the Jan 2012 edition of Scouting
Rule 2.4 Responsibilities within the Child
Protection Policy
d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities. The
Association issues further advice on Alcohol
and Scouting, which is available from the
Information Centre.

"directly responsible"

If you are duty leader then it is a no-no. But then all responsible
leaders I have ever met have always had this policy.

If I go to a restaurant in this country then over 16 can have alcohol
with a meal. Looks like we have exceed the law in this case.


Andy

[Chris Atkinson]

Post by AndyW

Post by Shaun Joynson
Hi guys,
Just happened upon this from the Jan 2012 edition of Scouting
Rule 2.4 Responsibilities within the Child
Protection Policy
d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities. The
Association issues further advice on Alcohol
and Scouting, which is available from the
Information Centre.

"directly responsible"
If you are duty leader then it is a no-no. But then all responsible
leaders I have ever met have always had this policy.
If I go to a restaurant in this country then over 16 can have alcohol
with a meal. Looks like we have exceed the law in this case.

Old Chinese proverb say 'he who issues regulations often forgets to
check for wider implications' (source of the Unintended Consequences
Law)
Chris A.

[Shaun Joynson]

Andy, you make a very interesting point there, because of course, if you, as I did on many occasions, took the Explorers/Ventures out for a meal at the end of term, Christmas etc, then they can if they are over 16 and so desire it, order alcohol with a meal, and short of confrontation, I doubt there would be much to do to stop them. A similar situation occurred once on an overseas Scouting trip I was involved with to a country where the smoking laws were much more relaxed than ours.

So there were the Scouts buying fags left right and centre and the leader was powerless to stop them in many respects. I think in the end they settled for a 'I don't want to see you smoking' policy.

As regards the SA exceeding the law - well as a private religious charity they can set whatever internal rules they like, because as at least one senior figure has told me (on another matter) 'We are above the law'!

[Andrew]

Post by AndyW

Post by Shaun Joynson
Hi guys,
Just happened upon this from the Jan 2012 edition of Scouting
Rule 2.4 Responsibilities within the Child
Protection Policy
d. Adults must not consume alcohol when they
are directly responsible for young people on
a Scouting activity and must not permit
young people (aged under 18 years) to
consume alcohol on Scouting activities. The
Association issues further advice on Alcohol
and Scouting, which is available from the
Information Centre.

"directly responsible"
If you are duty leader then it is a no-no. But then all responsible
leaders I have ever met have always had this policy.
If I go to a restaurant in this country then over 16 can have alcohol
with a meal. Looks like we have exceed the law in this case.
Andy

Going back to my time as a Venture Scout Leader as a none drinker I was
usually the designated driver / responsible adult - I soon learnt where
the A&E's were near to our local campsites. In those days we used to let
the Ventures have a drink on camp - it was discussed with parents 1st
for the young ones and we said that we did not mind them bringing a few
cans with them as long as it went in their rucksacks - no spirits,
alcopops or super strength lagers. They were told they were being
treated as adults and we expected them to respect that. We also tried
making our own wines and beers so that we were not buying alcohol for
those underage. We used to go to the local pub after the meeting and it
was a rite of passage when the Ventures turned 18 to be allowed to join us.

Nowadays as a ASL in an evening after the scouts have gone to bed a
couple of the leaders will have a can but there is always at least 2
leaders who have not had a drink. If the leaders want a proper drink it
is time for a leaders weekend when POR becomes a distant memory.

My daughter's school have 3 very simple rules:
No drugs
No smoking
Alcohol with permission only. Either parental where there is a party and
the children are with their families or teachers for school parties. I
like the idea of my daughter being able to see that alcohol is not
something that has to be drunk in secret or on the local park but
learning that it is something that she has to be responsible with - she
is nearly 16 and enjoys a nice glass of wine with a meal.

Don't forget that the legal age to give a child a drink is 5 unless
given by a doctor.

Andrew

[Stephen Rainsbury]

Take a few days off and it starts up again :-)

I would have thouyght that so long as you can meet the necessary
leader ratio the rest can drink.

So ESLs no problem then, give them a passort and pass the bottle
round.

SBR